1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

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1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby Justin H on Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:39 pm

Yesterday, on a whim, I decided to make a beer with as short of a brew day as possible and chose a Berliner weisse. I cleaned and sanitized all equipment. I added 5 lbs of DME (3 lbs Briess Bavarian Wheat DME [65% wheat 35% barley], 2 lbs Briess Pilsner DME) to 5 gal Arrowhead drinking water, and pitched. No boil. The LHBS was out of WLP 630 Berliner weisse blend and WLP 677 lacto delbrueckii & WLP 011 European ale. So I improvised. I picked up a vial of WLP 029 Kolsch yeast and a lactobacillus probiotic (Good Belly - mango juice drink). I set the temperature in my refrigerator to 70*F. 12 hours later I had a healthy fermentation chugging away.

I have not added any hops, yet. I don't know if I need to, but I have considered boiling 1oz of saaz with 1l H2O and 100g DME and adding it to the fermenter later, but I did not want to retard the lactobacillus initially.

Any suggestions or comments are welcomed.
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby CurtisG on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:05 am

I have no idea how that will turn out but I will definitely try it out when it's done!
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby brahn on Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:10 pm

CurtisG wrote:I have no idea how that will turn out but I will definitely try it out when it's done!


+1!
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby BrewMasterBrad on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:05 pm

Very interesting experiment. I will look forward to the results.
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby Justin H on Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:28 pm

I took a sample, and once cold and carbed, the early results were a clean, mildly tart beer. An easy drinker, but one that lacked any real character. I split away 3 gallons into 1 gallon carboys. The 1st got WLP 655 Belgian sour mix, the 2nd WLP 644 formerly Brett Brux Trois, the 3rd got 3/4 lb frozen raspberries. The raspberries kicked up a 2nd fermentation pretty quick. I haven't seen any activity in the other two. I didn't really expect to see any airlock movement from 655, maybe a pelicle at some point, but I have no idea what to expect from 644. Does anyone have experience pitching this yeast into already fermented beer? Any practical advice on how long to wait before tasting it again? All carboys are being held between 75*F - 80*F.
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby Justin H on Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:33 am

*Update*
I've done some reading since this experiment and the next time I try this I will go with the "kettle souring" technique. The only real difference being to pitch the lacto in the kettle and hold it at around 100*F in as close to an anaerobic environment as possible for 1-2 days. Then boil to sanitize the wort and pitch the sach yeast. The main benefit to this approach is that the resulting beer is "bug free" so you can use all the same cold side equipment without risk of contamination. With the current batch there is living lactobacillus so I avoided kegging and instead carbonated in 2l soda bottles.

Adding fruit seemed to help the beer. The fruit may or may not have supplied some additional sugar that was consumed by the lactobacillus leading to a more assertive tartness. Or it may have been the acid content of the fruit that brightened up the beer and contributed to the tartness. But there was an extra dimension that the fruit brought that seemed to add a little life.
I brought the Berliner with raspberries to the November meeting and I was pleased with how it turned out. Prominent tartness, crisp and low-moderate fruit presence. I aged another gallon on 3/4lb peaches with similar results.
Most recently I transferred a gallon that was inoculated with Brett Brux Trois to a just emptied carboy that contained raspberries. After 3-4 weeks I moved it to another just emptied carboy with peaches and allowed it to sit for 3-4 weeks more. This one seems a little more sour and complex than the previous versions, yet still a very easy drinker.
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby BrewMasterBrad on Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:34 am

Noble Brewing did a sour kettle Berliner Weiss a while back. It turned out pretty good. Not sure if they added lacto to the mash or just let the natural little buggers do their work overnight. I remember Evan telling me that the brewery stunk really bad the next morning since he it let it sour overnight.
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby bwarbiany on Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:51 am

When I do another gose, I will plan to sour mash it. I had some... interesting... results trying to kettle sour a beer:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2600
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Re: 1st Sour: Extract Berliner w/ probiotic lacto

Postby Justin H on Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 pm

Sour mashes can have some "interesting" results as well. One of the main benefits kettle souring vs. sour mashing is control and repeatability. You can eliminate the variability that comes with grain inoculation and have the predictability of a pure culture pitch. If executed properly though, sour mashing can give you greater complexity and depth of flavor than kettle souring.
If you're interested in this sort of thing Milk the Funk is a great resource:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Sour_Worting
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