What does oxidated beer taste like?

[lexuschris]

Just trying to follow this thread... its late, and i'm slow.

Haemon, did you brew a Belgian Christmas ale yesterday, with an OG of 1.068, and no yeast available other than a slant of the yeast you want to use?

My understanding of slanting yeast, means you need at least a full weak of scaling up starters to get to a good 1-2 litre pitching volume.

If it were me, at this point I would be looking for a whole vial of liquid yeast (or 2 of I had it), or at least 2 packets of dry yeast, and just get to pitching. (e.g. I'd rather sub 2 packets of Safeale US-05 for a fancy WLP072 or a slant of a cool yeast, which has not progressively been brought up to proper cell counts.) You'll get a good beer out of a different yeast strain, at resonably close pitching levels. That may not be true of serious underpitching your slant, or delaying pitching a few days.

Side note: I hear that in Australia, some homebrewers do package their wort and keep it for several days or weeks before pitching. However, they fill plastic cubes to the brim, so that there is no airspace, then cap while still very hot. They let it air cool to the next day or so, then pitch and get on with it.

Bottom line, try to find a good yeast quantity, even if it is a different strain than you enviosioned, and get to pitching sooner, rather than later.

Good Luck
--LexusChris

[backyard brewer]

By "slant" I'm pretty sure he meant White Labs vial, not a typical agar slant.

[bwarbiany]

By "slant" I'm pretty sure he meant White Labs vial, not a typical agar slant.

Agreed. That's how I read it too.

And if this is the case, I'd pitch immediately AND try to buy more yeast immediately. Waiting three days will be too long if you pitch now (as the yeast will probably have already replicated way more than the amount of yeast you'd buy by then), but pitching now and pitching again within, say, 12 hours will probably at least have some benefit.

But if you're going to pitch right now, remember that temperature is KEY. Yeast reproducing at too high of a temperature can cause all sorts of nasty flavors. Underpitching can cause some issues, but I'd say they pale in comparison to what high temps can do to you.

[bwarbiany]

Apologies for double post.

[Haemon]

OK, update!

At the recommendation of several members, I pitched my vial of yeast (WLP570, dated best by 3/15/10) at about 3pm today. I was on the phone with Eric at the time, who magnanimously offered to sell me some extra yeast on his off-hours. Because my Tuesdays start to look a little crazy around 3pm, though, we were unable to meet up. Wednesday doesn't look much better but if I can get in and get some dry yeast, I'll pitch it quick. Thursday is his next day open and I'm sure I'll be able to slip out of work at some point for a short trip.

This has been a fiasco, yes, but a learning fiasco! I think that for my next couple of brews I will stick to dry yeast.

Of note, I would like to amend a correction-- I had stated the OG as something like 1.068, but upon pitching the yeast today, I realized I had taken that reading when the wort was still at something like 100F. According to the charts I have, that places the OG at 1.073, which is still pretty far under what I'd expected.

[oc eric]

OK, update!
This has been a fiasco, yes, but a learning fiasco! I think that for my next couple of brews I will stick to dry yeast.

You learn from every batch.

[Haemon]

OK, update!
This has been a fiasco, yes, but a learning fiasco! I think that for my next couple of brews I will stick to dry yeast.

You learn from every batch.

The day I stop learning will be the day I stop breathing.

[DrDually]

You are correct in learning from every batch,.,,I sure do
As for the debate between liquid and dry yeast, I prefer liquid and have just began using a starter and stir plate. On the last brew, yeast was ptiched arond 9pm and was bubbling away before dawn the next day. This was first time a starter and stir plate were used. In past, bubbling began about 18-20 hours after pitching.

Need a stir plate? See Eric at Homebrew Provisions or Derrin at Brewers Hardware

[Haemon]

I'm not really looking for speed, to be honest. I could care less if the beer gets done in 5 days or 5 weeks, I just want it to taste good. Some folk have been telling me that it's better when things take off quick like that, though, so I will consider a stir plate and flask when I manage to get a paycheck that isn't spoken for.

[backyard brewer]

I'm not really looking for speed, to be honest. I could care less if the beer gets done in 5 days or 5 weeks, I just want it to taste good. Some folk have been telling me that it's better when things take off quick like that, though, so I will consider a stir plate and flask when I manage to get a paycheck that isn't spoken for.

Keep in mind that it's not about 'speed' per se, but that when we make beer, no matter how good your sanitation, it's a race between your yeast fermenting your wort and bacteria spoiling it. Every little thing you do to give your yeast the upper hand produces better beer; oxygen, proper volume of healthy yeast (a starter), proper temperature range for the strain, etc. Faster start and finish times are just indicators and byproducts of that. Lag time favors the bacteria.

So, the goal is not to ferment faster, it just so happens that a fast start and quick finish are usually indicators of a healthy ferment.

[Haemon]

Thank you for explaining that! I had a feeling that was the case, that the take-off of fermentation was a sign of healthy reactions. I hope mine is reacting healthily when I get home tonight.

There's been LOTS of talk of yeast and starters in here lately, so instead of asking more questions I'm just going to read up on that and try and figure out what to do next.

[backyard brewer]

There's been LOTS of talk of yeast and starters in here lately, so instead of asking more questions I'm just going to read up on that and try and figure out what to do next.

Ask the questions. The only reason we know the answers is because we asked the same questions at some point.

[Haemon]

well, the first subject I'd like to ask about is re-pitching. What are some good guidelines for this? When my Christmas Ale is done, for example, how do I harvest that yeast? Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do so-- like, some sign that the yeast has gone bad, or wild? How do I store it? How long can I store it? When I brew again, can I use that particular yeast in any ale, or are there style restrictions? Are there any other special considerations of which I should be aware when re-pitching?

*breath*

Oh! Update on the Christmas Ale! We have bubbling! It looks slow, but there's a lot of foam of different shades, so it's either taking its sweet time or I somehow already missed the high point. I'll check again tomorrow morning and then I'll know, I suppose.

I called it a fiasco earlier. I think if it comes out properly, I will dub it Jolly Fiasco.