Adding fruit puree to "secondary", i.e. serving ke

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:17 pm

This weekend Dustin and I will be testing out the new brew setup, and we're doing a Light Belgian Ale. We're both low on homebrew, so we need something quick, and a nice 5% (or maybe slightly lower, depending on efficiency) beer will go well. In addition, we're going to add fruit to this. I'll add blackberry puree to my portion, and he'll be adding blueberry puree to his.

Normally we primary and then keg, no secondary fermentation in the process. Since we keg, we might as well secondary in the keg on a regular basis. But I've never added fermentable material to the keg, so I'm not sure how it will work.

I'll probably add about 2 lbs of the puree to my keg. I plan to serve out of that keg. I assume I can probably just add it to the keg, seal it, bleed pressure daily for 4-5 days (enough for it to ferment out), then probably add gelatin, cold condition, and start serving.

All our kegs now have 1/2" of the dip tub sawn off, so I doubt we'll have to worry about clogging. But should I expect especially large amounts of sediment since I'm adding the puree? Any other pitfalls I should be worried about? I'm sure I can transfer under CO2 to a new keg if necessary, but I'd rather not blow through that much gas or have to worry about sanitizing another keg unless I have to.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:42 pm

Hi Brad:

No experience to assist you ... I've got my first "puree" beer in secondary now (carboy). When I go down and pick it up from my neighbor's wine cellar to rack it into a corny, I'll try to remember to describe (and perhaps get a pic) of the sediment for you. Should be late tomorrow or Thursday.

Dan

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:10 pm

Thanks Dan...

I want to have this beer pouring for my son's first birthday party on Aug 9. So this, more than usual, has me "watching the clock".

Oskaar · Post by **Oskaar** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:58 am

I've done a lot of fruit secondaries in corny kegs, in fact I used to primary mead in them as well. My advice is that you rig a quick disconnect (ball lock with a hose barb) to the gas in post and worm clamp a blow-off tube onto the barb, then the open end into a gallon bucket or whatever you normally use. Secondaries can take off suddenly and explosively. I've used this technique a good hundred times or so with no issues.

Cheers,

Oskaar

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:51 am

I agree with Pete. I used to primary in cornies as well. I recommend removing the gas-in post and clamping a piece of 1/2" tubing to the threads, then inserting the other end in a bucket of sanitizer.

I would also consider racking to another serving keg. There are usually seed fragments in the puree's that will probably be hell in the poppets and stick. Not to mention you could extract tannins from them over time. I've had major major issues with tiny amounts of leaf hop clogging the poppets when I dry hopped in the keg once.

An easy way to rack is to remove the liquid-out post, slide the dip tube up and secure it with a second o-ring. The two o-rings will keep it from sliding down. 3/8" tubing will fit over the end of the dip tube. You can reattach the gas-in fitting and give the keg a small amount of pressure, just enough to get it to flow. Gas will leak from the dip tube o-ring setup, but don't worry, you'll still get beer out. Slide the dip tube down until you just start to pickup sediment, viola! you have a "linear" racking arm

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:56 am

Damn... Well, I'll have to wait until I hear from Dan (BTW Dan, did you do a blowoff or anything else to remove pressure?)... Or I might just screw it and go for a secondary. That might even give me an excuse to brew next weekend too (possibly our first lager)...

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:24 am

Brad:

The secondary did have some renewed fermentation action. But as it was in a carboy, a simple airlock was sufficient. Looks like tonight I'll get to rack ...

Dan

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:27 am

bwarbiany wrote:Damn... Well, I'll have to wait until I hear from Dan (BTW Dan, did you do a blowoff or anything else to remove pressure?)... Or I might just screw it and go for a secondary. That might even give me an excuse to brew next weekend too (possibly our first lager)...

What's the hold up to just doing secondary in the corny and then transferring to a serving corny?

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:51 am

Backyard Brewer wrote:
bwarbiany wrote:Damn... Well, I'll have to wait until I hear from Dan (BTW Dan, did you do a blowoff or anything else to remove pressure?)... Or I might just screw it and go for a secondary. That might even give me an excuse to brew next weekend too (possibly our first lager)...
What's the hold up to just doing secondary in the corny and then transferring to a serving corny?

If there's a bunch of sediment, I'd rather be able to see through the side when I'm racking to the serving corny. I'd do the "raise the dip tube" thing, but I'm not sure I'd be able to see the seeds/sediment/etc all that clearly anyway. Plus I've got a bunch of airlocks, I haven' put together any sort of a blowoff tube for a corny in the past.

I could go either way, though.

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:55 am

bwarbiany wrote:
Backyard Brewer wrote:
bwarbiany wrote:Damn... Well, I'll have to wait until I hear from Dan (BTW Dan, did you do a blowoff or anything else to remove pressure?)... Or I might just screw it and go for a secondary. That might even give me an excuse to brew next weekend too (possibly our first lager)...
What's the hold up to just doing secondary in the corny and then transferring to a serving corny?
If there's a bunch of sediment, I'd rather be able to see through the side when I'm racking to the serving corny. I'd do the "raise the dip tube" thing, but I'm not sure I'd be able to see the seeds/sediment/etc all that clearly anyway. Plus I've got a bunch of airlocks, I haven' put together any sort of a blowoff tube for a corny in the past.

I could go either way, though.

Good reasons! You should give it a try sometime though, it's a nice technique to know. Oh and you'll see the sediment because the racking hose is clear. So, yeah, you'll get a little sediment but not enough to matter.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:23 pm

Hey Brad W.

Hereis a pic pre racking of the sediment. I racked it onto the raspberry around 6/17 ... brewed it on 6/11 (if memory serves).

Dan

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:22 pm

Hmm, I'm starting to confuse myself now (happens often enough).

I got the "fruit" ingredients from the beersmith site. Most of the fruits are listed with potentials of anywhere between 1.005 and 1.008 potential points per pound per gallon (ppg). Corn sugar used for priming is listed as 1.046 ppg.

For priming a keg, we use 4 oz of corn sugar, which (since it's going into a five-gallon batch) should add 1.0023 in total gravity to the batch:

( (46*0.25) / 5 ) = 2.3

The fruit, assuming the blackberry puree will give 1.008 ppg, and I use 2 lbs of it, should add 1.0032 to the batch:

( (8*2) / 5 ) = 3.2

It seems that if I'm using this small of an amount, it will add barely more to the fermentable material than priming sugar, and thus even a sealed keg shouldn't go explosive on me.

Am I going wrong in my reasoning somewhere?

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:47 pm

bwarbiany wrote: It seems that if I'm using this small of an amount, it will add barely more to the fermentable material than priming sugar, and thus even a sealed keg shouldn't go explosive on me.

Am I going wrong in my reasoning somewhere?

Yes.

First, way too much math there...

Second, much like the gravity contribution of wheat, oats or rye doesn't describe their contribution to the ferocity of the fermentation, neither does fruit.

I doubt your fermentation ill be explosive with its addition, but it's best to be prepared with a BBBOT, otherwise you're sure to have a mess.

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:13 pm

So you're saying that even though I will be adding very little gravity, I'll probably still have a fair amount of fermentation activity (and from Dan's picture, a lot of sediment too)?

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:27 pm

Yes. Like cane sugar, most fruit is very fermentable and can lead to a significant fermentation. So while the starting gravities can be very high, the finish is next to nothing.

Don't confuse gravity contribution for fermentability.