Chilling your wort

[Fedor]

I'm brewing a California Common. I tried saving a little time and energy (tree-hugger style) by using ice to chill my wort. In my 5-gallon bucket, I poured my wort to aerate and then dumped in 20-lbs of ice.

"Holy crap" is right. I chilled it to around 46 degrees Fahrenheit and panicked a little since I didn't really need to chill any lower than 70 degrees, according to the typical advice on any brewkit or in The Complete Joy of Homebrewing (Papazian).

Uh, anyway, I pitched my liquid yeast and crossed my fingers.

After 3 days, I didn't notice any blow-off, so I just picked up the bucket and sloshed it around a little. I siphoned out some of the brew and tasted it -- uh, I guess I panicked for nothing. It tasted fine and had a bit of carbonation going on, so there was nothing to worry about. I moved it from the garage into the kitchen and there's a bit more action now.

Has anybody else tried the 20-lb ice trick and failed?

[maltbarley]

When I did partial boil extract batches, this was the method I used. With larger boils came an immersion chiller and then a plate chiller. Both of those will only get me to 80 in the summer, but others on the board are big fans of recirculating ice-chilled water in their immersion chillers (the real techies use glycol). I favor just putting the batch in the fridge and letting it come down before pitching yeast.

At what temp did you pitch your yeast?

[lexuschris]

Never tried ice directly into the wort. Would be nervous about infections and all that...

When I was doing extract batches and small boils, I would buy two of the 2.5 gallon bottled waters at the market. I'd put one of them in the freezer when I was starting to prep for my brew session. I'd use the other 2.5 gal for the boil.

After the boil, I'd place the brew pot in the soak side of the sink with ice water up to the wort level in the pot... gently recirculating around the outside while watching the temp for 10-15 mins. When it reached 120-F, I'd pour vigorously into the fermenting bucket (splashing some O2 into it), and then pull out the not-yet frozen but icy 2.5 gallon from the freezer, and poor that into the bucket too (more splashy O2). That would pretty much drop me to 70F-75F perfectly.

After that it was pitch the yeast, put on the lid and swirl well.

Let us know how it turns out!
--LexusChris

[backyard brewer]

Well, "crash cooling" and then allowing your wort to raise back up to fermentation temps is generally met with pretty good results.

However, adding ice directly to the wort can be problematic since freezing doesn't usually kill bacteria infections can be a significant risk. Based on your description that it was 20 pounds of ice, I'd have to assume that it was store-bought commercial ice. That should be more sanitary that ice from your freezer where it might have been stored with food.

A really popular method is to use an immersion chiller and a pump to recirculate water from an ice bath through the IC.

Anyway, you probably won't have any problems, but I wouldn't recommend dumping ice in your wort as an SOP.

[backyard brewer]

Oh and welcome to the forum BTW!

[slothfacekilla]

The first time I made beer I used a method of hot wort into an ice water bath. That should cool it down very rapidly. You just have to make sure that you factor in the to the over all liquid quantity. I found this tip on a "Good Eats: episode.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8421700337
You can just skip ahead to 14 mins. because the rest is pretty basic steps.

Peace.

[maltbarley]

My misunderstanding: I thought you were talking about placing your bucket into an ice bath. I've never tried the iced tea thing with wort.

[Fedor]

When I did partial boil extract batches, this was the method I used. With larger boils came an immersion chiller and then a plate chiller. Both of those will only get me to 80 in the summer, but others on the board are big fans of recirculating ice-chilled water in their immersion chillers (the real techies use glycol). I favor just putting the batch in the fridge and letting it come down before pitching yeast.

At what temp did you pitch your yeast?

I pitched it cold... right around 60 degrees. I felt like a rebel.

[Fedor]

Thanks, all, for your replies. I'm going into secondary fermentation this weekend. The baby's still burping, so I guess I'm doing alright. I'll have to see if any mold is floating around in there, but I'll let you all know what's revealed in the carboy.

I think this method's good for brew systems with little surface area, 5-gallon or less, so there's less places for bugs to hang out and multiply while the brew hits its stride.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Hey Fedor, welcome to the board.

Let me see if I am understanding your process here. You poured your hot wort into your fermentation bucket, then added 20 lbs. of ice to chill it? First, never aerate hot wort. Only aerate after it has been chilled. You will end up with oxidized beer if you aerate hot wort. Second, I have to echo what others have said about adding ice to the wort - you are taking your chances with sanitation. I wouldn't be as concerned with mold as much as bugs you can't see. Only time will tell if your beer is infected. Last, what yeast are you using for this beer? Cal Common should be fermented with San Francisco Lager yeast at 58-62F. You can get away with WLP001, but it won't technically be a Cal Common if you do that.

Let me know if I am off base here, just trying to give some constructive feedback based on the information you provided.

[Fedor]

Hey Fedor, welcome to the board.

Let me see if I am understanding your process here. You poured your hot wort into your fermentation bucket, then added 20 lbs. of ice to chill it? First, never aerate hot wort. Only aerate after it has been chilled. You will end up with oxidized beer if you aerate hot wort. Second, I have to echo what others have said about adding ice to the wort - you are taking your chances with sanitation. I wouldn't be as concerned with mold as much as bugs you can't see. Only time will tell if your beer is infected. Last, what yeast are you using for this beer? Cal Common should be fermented with San Francisco Lager yeast at 58-62F. You can get away with WLP001, but it won't technically be a Cal Common if you do that.

Let me know if I am off base here, just trying to give some constructive feedback based on the information you provided.

Hello, BMB:

Yes, I was worried about invisibugs. Today I finally bottled the beer and of course sampled my "cask" brew. It was good... slightly apple-flavored which I'm reading is an acetaldehyde characteristic. This is either due to the youth of my beer or bacteria. If anybody has made a steam beer and knows what 2 weeks of primary and 2 weeks of secondary fermenting taste like at bottling time, let me know.

I used liquid San Francisco Lager and let it ferment in a 75-80 degree garage. I definitely bent every rule on brewing, but I still achieved a 1.011 final gravity.

In about a week or so, I'll be cracking a bottle or two so I can check on the progress. I'll let you know. I have 4 bottles cold-conditioning in the fridge and 42 bottles in a cool, dark pantry. I thought I'd stretch out the SF Lager yeast even more to see what it does in ale and lager conditions.

Cali Common beer, as I understand it, was made in less than ideal conditions during the Gold Rush and expansion on the west coast way back when. I'm hoping to strike gold myself with a beer that can be brewed in the garage during a hot, Florida summer.

Feel free to rip into this. I'm learning a lot from all your comments and I'm very glad to have joined your community.

(B-Fiddy)

[BrewMasterBrad]

The fruity character you are getting is probably more due to the high fermentation temperature (esters) rather than acetaldehyde. The SF Lager Yeast should be fermented in the low 60s. While your historical interpretation of the beer is correct, the San Francisco Bay area is known for it's cool temperature and is definitely not as warm as Florida in the summer.

The best thing I ever did to improve the quality of my beers was to invest in fermentation temperature control. I live in Southern California, which gets awfully hot during the summer and there is no way I could brew year round without temperature controlled fermentation.

[Rezzin]

This is one my favorite beers to brew and I personally feel that fermenting in the 60d~ range followed by 'lagering' for a month or two really helps this beer shine. I agree with Brad that the fruitiness you're getting is most likely from the high fermentation temps. I say stick 12 pack in the fridge and forget about it for a month or two then do a side by side with some in the cellar to see the difference!

I think the beer really benefits from a month or two in cold storage. I don't drink mine until at least 2 months after it's been brewed.

[Fedor]

This is one my favorite beers to brew and I personally feel that fermenting in the 60d~ range followed by 'lagering' for a month or two really helps this beer shine. I agree with Brad that the fruitiness you're getting is most likely from the high fermentation temps. I say stick 12 pack in the fridge and forget about it for a month or two then do a side by side with some in the cellar to see the difference!

I think the beer really benefits from a month or two in cold storage. I don't drink mine until at least 2 months after it's been brewed.

Sounds good, Rez. Alls I gots is time. I am going to jail for a few months, so when I get back, it should be ready. Just kidding. No jail time for me. But that would be an awesome excuse to work on a batch of Pruno.

So, I'll stock the brews in the fridge and maybe wind up with some weird Anchor Steam-Humidity beer or California Uncommon in a couple of months. In the meantime, there's no sign of cooler temperatures unless I disguise my fermenter as a floor lamp and keep it in the living room.

What kind of temp control do you all recommend? I was thinking of a space blanket with some freezer bricks and a temperature gauge stuck in a double-drilled stopper. Or let me know if you can recommend a high-temperature style of ale for my next batch while the California Common mellows.

Next post will be on a new string.

[maltbarley]

Try a water bath in a cooler with frozen water bottles to keep it cool. As far as warm weather styles, think Belgian. A Saison could ferment in hell and still be to style.

Take a look at this chart from White Labs: http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/belgianchart.pdf