Honey & other sugars

[lexuschris]

Hey all,

Had a question about the use of real honey in beer. I've seen many posters on other boards dismiss the idea that adding honey to your beer will give it any honey flavor because 'it is just sugar and will completely ferment out'. Obviously, we use nothing but honey in meads, and get plenty of honey flavor. So on the surface, it seems odd to say that it won't contribute any flavor to your beer... just 'dry it out'.

Certainly, a very small portion may not be noticable. And for some recipes, you may want to just boost the OG with a small add. In others, you want to give a nice honey flavor to blend with your beer.

Finally, if honey tastes different than cane sugar, which tastes different than molasses, which tastes different than muscovado, there must be other flavor chains than just fermentable sugar in there.. right?

Thoughts?
--LexusChris

[BrewMasterBrad]

I think people that claim that honey gives no flavor contribution to beer are the same people that add honey to the boil. If you add honey, it should be after flameout in order to preserve the volatile flavors that would otherwise be lost. I am not an expert on all the types of sugar out there, but it stands to reason that the more refined a sugar is, the less flavor it will have as it approaches just being pure sucrose, dextrose, fructose, maltose, etc.

Derrin makes a fine honey pale ale, but I don't know when he adds the honey.

I think Pete may have some insight on this subject as well, so I hope he will chime in on this.

[DrDually]

Perhaps Derrin will post/share his recipe with us

[jward]

I agree with Brad. They probably boil their honey. Sounds like a good way to remove wonderful aromas. You might consider adding your honey to your cool wort. Stir it in similar to how you make mead. On really high gravity beers I have seen the recipes call for adding sugars during the fermentation because the gravity would be too high for the yeast if all the sugar was present at the start. So, you could even feed the honey during primary but on a reasonable gravity fermentation the gain would probably be minimal for that effort.

[backyard brewer]

I add honey at flame out after the temp knocks down a little and while I'm whirlpooling so it mixes and dissolves, probably below 150*. I also use a little honey malt 2-5% of my grist which brings back some of the flavor compounds that complete the honey taste and really helps fill in the holes.

Softer water is supposed to accentuate the honey flavor but I've not noticed that and yes you absolutely can taste honey in the beer when used in this fashion. I suspect that people who've added honey and not tasted it boiled it like Brad said or used grocery store honey which is mostly corn syrup or used just a small amount. I usually use 6 pounds in a 10 gallon batch.

Also make sure you ferment it cool, like 66* with WLP001 or the lowest temp your yeast will tolerate. Honey tends to produce fusel alcohol at higher temps and it will split your head open the next day if you're not careful with the fermentation.

[oc eric]

Perhaps Derrin will post/share his recipe with us

+1

[brahn]

I think he had shared it before the great crash of 07. Maybe if we ask real nice...

[jward]

I wouldn't mind seeing the recipe either. I plan to make beesbutt or a honey wheat. I should have enough orange blossom honey for a batch of mead and a braggot.

[backyard brewer]

I'll try and find it. It was in the recipe DB once. Now my Promash is on a laptop with a broken monitor and I haven't bothered trying to get it back since I haven't brewed in so long.

[lexuschris]

This is all good to hear. I've been using honey in several of my recipes. In my Old Ale, I had added it in the last 20 mins of the boil. After talking with Lars & Pete this past year, I've since been adding honey post boil.. Usually during the whirlpool at about 130-F. I believe I was able to taste it in the beer, hence my question about so many folks saying you couldn't.

Just wanted to calibrate my palete.
--LexusChris

p.s. I used Muscovado in my Old Ale recipe, and thought it was quite pronounced. That is the recipe I make my gruit ale based upon. I will be brewing a full 5 gal of gruit this summer, adding some yarrow, and dialing back the honey & muscavado about 33%... should be tasty..

[lexuschris]

Heya,

I was reading a HBT thread on different kinds of sugars. They were talking about how inverted sugar (candi sugar) is easier for the yeast to metabolize since they don't have to break sucrose down to the fructose & glucose on their own. So, less stress on the yeast means cleaner fermentation...

Some also commented on adding the sugar into the primary after a few days.. so that yeast do their hard work on maltose up-front, then get fed simplier food after the heavy lifting is done. Is that typical? Or just for high gravity brews?

Finally, I looked up that honey is fructose & glucose, so also an easy form of fermentable sugar. I also found a wiki article describing how honey inhibits the growth of microrganisms due to its low moisure content. I remember Pete talking about this property of honey, but did not really undstand the mechanism until now.

Anyways, just sharing some reading on sugars...

-LexusChris