Keg Troubleshooting

[Haemon]

I'm probably making this waaaay more complicated than it needs to be, but let me ask a few questions because this is just driving me crazy.

Let's assume, for the moment, that a keg is sealed and full of delicious beverage. It is at 50F and holding, at 16.3psi as recommended, for three days uninterrupted. Day three, I shake it around and, hearing no hiss of gas from the CO2 canister, I presume it has saturated at 2.4 volumes of CO2, like I'd prefer.

The time comes to pour a glass of this delicious, carbonated beverage. Look down this list and tell me if this is the correct procedure.

1. Do not disconnect CO2; do not adjust CO2 flow; maintain connections and current pressure.
2. Pull lever on picnic tap all the way and fill glass (ideally, it should be great, but obviously this is not the case)
3. If there is nothing but foam, hit the release valve a few times; go back to step 2.

that sound right? or was it

1. Turn CO2 flow down to 2 or 3psi. (wouldn't that back the beverage into the regulator given the pressure?)
2. Pull lever on picnic tab all the way and fill glass (huh, seems there's some foam, so)
3. Hit release valve; go back to step 2.

In either procedure, the 2nd glass is great and I've got the necessary carbonation level, but only after I've vented the keg!

I am so confused. Every time I want to serve myself a single glass, I end up with foam, and then I have to vent the keg and that seems like this big waste of CO2. I can't imagine a world where this is a normal protocol for serving beverages from a keg-- I feel like I am missing some key piece of information, something that should be obvious, but I am just grinding my gears here. Someone talk some sense into me please!

[lexuschris]

Your much closer on the 2nd scenario.

Depending upon the length of hose in your servering tubing, and the height you are trying to push the beer to (i.e. a tower tap like mine needs a few more PSI), your serving PSI should be around 3-5 psi.

If your kegs are standing upright, then the 'IN' popit valve is not touching the actual beer... hence, no chance it will back up into the regulator (right??)

So once you set serving PSI, and vent the excess.. you should be good. Although, the beer will slowly off-gas and build up more pressure between nights. So, if you don't pull a pint for a few days, the next one will be a bit foamy.

I suggest you drink a pint every evening.
--LexusChris

[Marotte Brewery]

I had a few rocky moments when first kegging a few years ago. I think I have done all the wrong things. And plastic tubing is cheap if you get beer in the gas line.

In the end, I have 2 procedures. Fast and Slow:
Fast - Chill the beer in the keg for at least 24 hours. Set gas to 40 PSI and shake the keg for 60-90 sec. Disconnect the keg from the gas and let sit in the fridge for 1 hour (at 40 PSI). Set CO2 to 8-10 PSI and PULL RELIEF VALVE ON KEG to get rid of ALL the preasure. Hook up to gas and serve.

Slow - Keep gas at 8-10 PSI and hook up the keg in the fridge. No Shaking. In about 10-14 days, the beer should be carbonated just fine. Serve at will. A few minor adjustments might be needed to the PSI, maybe down to 6 if too much head, or up to 12 if not carbonated enough, but that is about it.

I tend to go for the slow method, but sometimes you just need beer!

[Haemon]

Although, the beer will slowly off-gas and build up more pressure between nights. So, if you don't pull a pint for a few days, the next one will be a bit foamy.

--LexusChris

That, right there, was the piece of info I was missing. That makes sense. Off to work-- more when I get some downtime!

[Haemon]

so what you guys are telling me is that unless I'm drinking it at a relatively steady pace, I'm going to need to vent the keg EVERY TIME before pulling a pint. Is that correct?

I have root beer in there now, so yeah, maybe 1-2 pints a day, but beer isn't something I drink every single night. Once I get down near the bottom of the keg, I'll be venting like 4 gallons of CO2 each time I want to drink, won't I?

[backyard brewer]

I never vent my kegs once they are going. How many feet of beer line do you have? 3/16" beer line has a pressure drop of something like 2.2 psi per foot. The idea is to balance your lines to attain 0 psi at the faucet. So if you're serving a beer at 10psi, you need basically 4.5-5' of beer line. Serving high CO2 volume beers can become problematic due to trying to attain that pressure balance. I usually serve my beers at 10psi with 5' lines and I usually don't experience foaming issues. I've heard of brewers having a faucet with a longer line just for high carbed beers.

Second is keep your lines cold. Abrupt changes in temp or pressure will force CO2 out of solution and cause foaming as will a nucleation point: ie dirt.

So, keep your lines the proper length, cold and clean and you should have relatively few problems.

[Haemon]

ahhh. I think the serving line is only 3 feet long, so I think that means I'm going from 16psi down to just below 10. I'll have to add a few feet for this batch. Good to know!

The kegs and lines and CO2 and everything is all kept in my deep freezer, so chilling the lines shouldn't be the issue.

[lexuschris]

+1 with Derrin... I never vent my kegs. Once the beer is carbed, and starts to pour foamy, l turn down my PSI .. and just let my pint sit for a few minutes. A few pours later, it seems to mellow out.

--LexusChris

[brahn]

I get foaming on my first glass because of co2 that comes out of solution in my lines. I will usually just pour an ounce or two, dump it, then pour my pint. Or I'll just wait for it to settle, it depends on my mood.

[jward]

Cold liquids holds more CO2. You said you were chilling to 50F, and it sounds like you already have temp/PSI/CO2 volumes chart. Chilling to a lower temp and reducing the pressure you use to carbonate will help. The beverage will hold the CO2 better and the lower pressure will balance better with the shorter hose. Of course your beverage may be colder then you want for drinking.

[Haemon]

true, but even if it was colder, I could warm it up faster than it could decarbonate I'd wager.

So I'm guessing that most of my problems will be solved once I pick up this new fridge. Good good!

[backyard brewer]

true, but even if it was colder, I could warm it up faster than it could decarbonate I'd wager.

So I'm guessing that most of my problems will be solved once I pick up this new fridge. Good good!

The off-gassing is almost instantaneous. The first bit you pull will almost always foam as the lines drop to temp. Like Brent was saying, I usually toss the first few onces of foam.

But you probably still need that new fridge

[Haemon]

Noted. OK, I think I may actually be starting to understand this insanity and chaos.

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me out! If anyone wants to come to my place on Monday I'll be brewing sometime around maybe 1pm, I have a few bottles of things I'd like to bust open and try! PM me if interested.

[oc eric]

Noted. OK, I think I may actually be starting to understand this insanity and chaos.

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me out! If anyone wants to come to my place on Monday I'll be brewing sometime around maybe 1pm, I have a few bottles of things I'd like to bust open and try! PM me if interested.

Doh! I work Mondays I want to try your root beer.

[Haemon]

Well I can move one of the brews until Tuesday, but you'll have to follow me to dinner afterwards.