Basic Yeast Starter Question

craigsdickson · Post by **craigsdickson** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:12 pm

Have been given a kit (Porter) from B3 as a present and it came with the standard White Labs vial of liquid yeast.

I have never bothered to make a starter with these vials in the past, but I would like to try it this time around.

My understanding is basically what I want to do is create a small wort (probably using DME in my case), mix in the yeast, let it stand for 48 hours or so and bingo! Pitch away.

My basic questions are:
- cleaning/sanitation of the flask - what to do?
- i think most people just wrap the top of the flask in foil, but i have seen foam stoppers for sale for this purpose as well, are they worth the investment?
- how much starter wort to make up for a 5 Gallon target batch?
- is 48 hours long enough?
- i don't have a stir plate, is that a big deal, can i just hand-swirl it occasionally instead?
- what temperature should the flask be kept at?
- any other shortcuts to success?

Cheers

bwarbiany · Post by **bwarbiany** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:44 pm

The first thing -- BE CAREFUL!

I have a nice 2nd or 3rd degree burn scar from the time I tried to boil the wort inside the erlenmeyer flask. That stuff can bubble over VERY quickly, due to the design of the flask.

I typically boil my starter wort in a normal pan for 10 minutes, then put a (sanitized) lid on the pan and stick it in the freezer until cool, then pour it into the flask. But I know other people do boil in the flask, so you miight want to ask them about their procedure.

As to your questions:

- I wash the flask in soapy water, and when thoroughly rinsed, I put a little bit of the water in the bottom of the flask and then put it on the stove to boil. Once it's boiled for a little while, I cap it with foil (while still hot, immediately after removing flame) and let it air-cool. The heat/steam will sterilize the flask, and when it's cool you can simply pour the water out right before pouring the wort in.

- I see no reason to use the foam instead of foil. But then again, I use foil on my carboy instead of an airlock, so I'm not exactly conventional on this issue.

- For a standard strength batch, I usually make a 1-1.4L starter. I have a 2L flask, so I can't make anything much larger than that anyway. I've often made a starter that size for 10-gallon batches as well, and had quick fermentation.

- 48 hours is fine. Anything more than 18 or so will be fine.

- Stir plates are preferred, but most people don't have them and simply swirl it every time they walk by.

- Room temp. You're not so worried about off-flavors, so if it's about 70 degrees, it's nothing to worry about.

- Other secret: Do the starter 48 hours in advance. After 24-36 hours, put it into the fridge. Cooling it down to fridge temp will precipitate all of your yeast nicely into the bottom of the flask. You decant off the liquid above, and you're left with a nice pitchable slurry.

maltbarley · Post by **maltbarley** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:55 pm

Make sure the grain was milled right on that B3 Porter kit.

brew captain · Post by **brew captain** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:24 pm

I leave my aeration hose and airstone in my starter vessel with the top covered with foil. I give it a shot of O2 everytime I think about it and a good swirl. I normally make my starters (2500ml) the day before I brew and they are typically at high krausen by pitching time.

Oh, I pitch the whole lot as I don't have time to crash it in the fridge and have detected no deleterious effects.

Cheers!

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:39 pm

I make a 1L starter in a flask for 5 gal batches. I boil right in the flask (it bubbles up fast, but it goes down really fast too if you catch it in time), and stick it in the sink with ice water to cool it after. I have tried cold crashing/decanting and pitching the whole thing at high krausen, and can't really tell a difference. I just think it was easier to make it in advance and cold crash though, because it will for sure be ready.

I also made a stir plate that cost me about $10, so I just use a foil piece on top so it can stay aerated.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:43 pm

A little foam control in your starter wort works wonders as well (when it comes to foam-overs). I like to ferment out my starters, crash for a day or two, then decant/pitch as I don't want any of that starter wort in my beer. I'm sure it's not a big deal but if you get a chance, taste some of it - not good

Rob brews 10g batches so 2L of starter wort is nothing. If you brewed something really light I'd recommend it but for most other brews - it's no problem.

If you decide to pitch the entire starter, it's advisable to do it at high krausen or 12-18 hour making it. Usually the night before is perfect.

BrewMasterBrad · Post by **BrewMasterBrad** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:46 pm

I make all-grain starter wort then can it in mason jars. I have never tried to boil in the flask, but I have heard some tricks on accomplishing this. You probably want to make a 2 liter or 2 quart starter. I have heard of people that boil their 2 quarts of water in the flask before adding the DME. After adding the DME, slowly bring it back to a boil to avoid a boil over. Boil for 15 minutes or so. Cap the flask with foil and let it cool to below 80F. Add the yeast and oxygenate or swirl it around to try to get some oxygen into solution. 24-48 hours is plenty of time to let the starter go.

dhempy · Post by **dhempy** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:12 pm

Count me as another boil in flask type, right on the stove, pre-heated in the microwave to bubbles on the side walls ... I usually make 1L starters, DME, nutrients, and water, boil in the flask, chill in ice water, pitch and onto the stir plate ... ( made a pair of these). With the heavier beers I typically make, I pitch the whole shebang. I'll probably take up crash / decant / pitch when I move to lagers.

Dan

P.S. I have extras of some of the electronics parts ... PM me if you want to do some "tinkerin'"!

Post by **brahn** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:50 pm

I watched Patrick boil a starter in the microwave at The Bruery the other day. That was pretty cool. I usually boil in a separate pot on the stove because it's too easy to boil over in the flask. I just pour the wort into the flask right as I cut the heat. I do spray some starsan into the flask beforehand, but I think the wort is plenty hot to kill any baddies when I pour it into the flask. Then I chill, pitch, and put on the stirplate.

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:55 pm

Pre-heating in a microwave is a great idea. Never thought of that, although I haven't done this very many times. I will have to try that next time.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:05 am

Microwaving your starter wort? Genius!

backyard brewer · Post by **backyard brewer** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:30 am

Canning.... The answer is canning...

I'll make a 4~5 gallon all-grain batch of wort and then can it. To make a starter, I just Star-San a flask, open a jar of starter, pour it in and shake it up, drop in the yeast and put it on a stire plate.

Takes me about 3 minutes to make a starter.

The canner was onw of the better purchases for my brewery. A single batch lasts me about a year or better.

Rezzin · Post by **Rezzin** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:44 am

I can too but it does take some time. I only use my canned starter wort (1 qt jars) for 5 gallon ale batches though. For lagers or when I eventually go 10 gallons, I may just start using the microwave! It's just nice how they last so long.

Derrin, why the 3 different sized containers?

kevinham · Post by **kevinham** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:12 am

Canning is a great idea, I might try to make up a batch and can it before the next brew day. You can just store them at room temp. right? No need to refrigerate?

Post by **brahn** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:24 am

Rezzin, to use the microwave you need a flask that will fit in your microwave. It seems like that would make it difficult to do larger starters that way.