Help jumping into all grain

[Otterbaub]

This being the internet and all i know what i am about to ask is a bit dicey.

Would anybody be interested in demoing an all grain procedure on your equipment? I have done my fair share of extracts and would like to make the jump into all grain. I would be able to provide all of the ingredients. I can also throw in my chef skills to make some awesome food while we are brewing.

Also it would be nice if you could help me diagnose my corny keg issue(posted in the equipment forum)

[bwarbiany]

Not dicey at all -- that's what a homebrew club is for.

Our club meetings are open to the public, occurring in odd-numbered months.

Paid club members get invited to club brew days every other month. These occur at members' homes (hence why they're not open to the public), and it's a great way to check out the process.

[DrDually]

Looks like I will be brewing on my HERMS system this weekend...PM me for phone nbr etc

[Otterbaub]

wish i could this weekend, but alas i will be in Texas for my grandmother's 90th , thanks for the offer. any other weekend after that an i am free.

[DrDually]

OK, keep in touch as I will be brewing again soon

[bwarbiany]

I would say that a HERMS system may be unnecessarily complex for your first foray into all-grain brewing. I would have offered my own brew system as an example, except that I do quite a bit with pumps and do fly sparging, which many new brewers don't do. I wouldn't want to unnecessarily offer confusion, and a HERMS system would do so even beyond what I do.

[Otterbaub]

As long as some one can communicate the pros and cons to the systems and techniques, i should be fine.
i figure that my first system is gonna be just enough to survive.
Pretty much all i need is another stock pot and and insulated holding vessel, from what i can tell.
i figure i need to make the jump sooner rather than later because ive done 3-5 gallon extract batches in the last week.

[backyard brewer]

I would say that a HERMS system may be unnecessarily complex for your first foray into all-grain brewing. I would have offered my own brew system as an example, except that I do quite a bit with pumps and do fly sparging, which many new brewers don't do. I wouldn't want to unnecessarily offer confusion, and a HERMS system would do so even beyond what I do.

I respectfully disagree Brad... If he were talking about buying a system and didn't have any all-grain experience, then I would say you're absolutely right; the additional complexity would be sure to cause him problems. However, to just hang out with a AG brewer and watch, ask questions and learn, I don't think a more complex brewery would be a detriment at all. I think the opportunity to brew with an experienced brewer is just as valuable whether they are brewing in a tea pot or a 14BBL brew house...

[DrDually]

I would say that a HERMS system may be unnecessarily complex for your first foray into all-grain brewing. I would have offered my own brew system as an example, except that I do quite a bit with pumps and do fly sparging, which many new brewers don't do. I wouldn't want to unnecessarily offer confusion, and a HERMS system would do so even beyond what I do.

I respectfully disagree Brad... If he were talking about buying a system and didn't have any all-grain experience, then I would say you're absolutely right; the additional complexity would be sure to cause him problems. However, to just hang out with a AG brewer and watch, ask questions and learn, I don't think a more complex brewery would be a detriment at all. I think the opportunity to brew with an experienced brewer is just as valuable whether they are brewing in a tea pot or a 14BBL brew house...

+1

I am very open to anyone that wants to just come over and watch me brew...only takes a PM to me
BTW, I am brewing this weekend

[dhempy]

Otterbaub:

Just in case something isn't clear ...and you may know this but HERMS and RIMS are two different "processes" to maintain mash temperature ... especially for longer mashes and or to increase temperature during "step" mashes whereby the mash "rests" at different temps during the mash cycle. The main difference between the two is how heat is applied .. either directly to the wort (RIMS) or indirectly via a heat exchnage (hot water bath: HERMS). Both of these techniques require a bit more hardware to execute and therefore have more steps in the process and I think that is what Brad W. was referring to in terms of complexity. But I do agree with Derrin ... I don't think watching another brewer brew on a HERMS or RIMS will impede you at all. My first AG batch was done on my homebuilt HERMS system without having seen it done before ... I just asked a a lot of questions and read Palmer's How-To-Brew. I learned a lot in that first session ... for me the biggest thing was watching my volumes!!!

That said, with today's modern malts, the majority of conversion is done withing the first 10 minutes of dough in so it is much more important to hit your desired mash temp on dough in than it is to maintain that temp. (BeerSmith / Promash / or other brewing software is your friend for this). Plenty of guys on here brew without HERMS/RIMS ... in fact BrewMaster Brad started out with a cooler mashtun and even though he has upgraded to a Brutus Stand, I don't think he has HERMS or RIMS capabilities (although he can apply direct heat to his mashtun). I'll let him fill in as necessary. And as Brad W. pointed out, he doesn't either. Point is, you can brew good beer with any of these techniques ... you should contrast / compare the processes and necessary hardware as much as possible before you make the next step (unless your plan is to continually tinker with your system ... like Derrin and myself!).

Dan

[Otterbaub]

i figure im probably gonna spend an extra hundo every other month and just continually upgrade my system.
Ive watched a couple of vidoes of the AG process and feel pretty confident that i have a loose idea of whats going on.
Good news i have a buddy who wants to do this with me so my individual cost will go down, however he really only wants to brew bud light. I prefer something closer to a drinking IPA, something not to heavy or bitter but with plenty of aromatics.

[BrewMasterBrad]

I don't have a RIMS or HERMS system, but as Dan points out, I can directly heat my mashtun which I do to bring my mash water to strike temp and to maintain heat while I recirculate the mash before sparging and running off to the boil kettle. I rarely use the direct heat to raise the mash temp all the way to mashout temps - the small added bit of efficiency isn't worth the added time to my brew day. Generally, I start sparging as soon as my recirculating mash is running clear and the sparge water is at the right temp. For me, the added complexity of a RIMS or HERMS system is not worth it. I subscribe to the KISS method of brewing and it has worked out pretty well so far. While all aspects of the brewing process are important, I concentrate most of my efforts on sanitation and fermentation since I believe that is the main difference between good beers and great beers.

[JonW]

Umm, Brad, you do have a RIMS system! It is called direct-fired RIMS.

If you recirculate the mash with a pump and add a heat source, you have a RIMS.

http://www.hbd.org/kroyster/definition.html

I'm also a fan of the direct-fired RIMS method.

[BrewMasterBrad]

I stand corrrected. I was using RIMS and didn't even know it. I will say, though, that my system is 100% manual. I have to turn on burners and pumps and turn valves all by myself. I also don't use it to do multi-step mashes.