1st ever brewers choice homebrew competition

[nico soze]

ok. saturday november 5 at 2:00pm, Out of the Park Pizza and Davis Family Brewery (thats me) present: the 1st Ever Brewer's Choice Homebrew Competition!!!

more details will folllow, however; the event will cost $20, and will include a buffet provided by ootp of course, and prize money for the winner. here's my thinking behind this event...

i am opposed to BJCP and AHA competitions. as a brewer, you are asked to pay money up front, and send 2-4 bottles of your hard earned precious nectar away to some people you've never met, and will never meet. 6-29 months later you might just get a few sheets of paper back telling you your beer sucked. LAAAME. that doesn't vibe with the personality of homebrewers i've met.

here's the way competitions will be done in the future, if i have any say in the matter. and for now, this is the basic thought process behind the competition i'm throwing november 5.

you will pay $20, and be ushered into a catered area of the prestigious Out of the Park Pizza, carrying an ice chest of your favorite frankenbrew, smash beer, beer you brewed for your wifes friends, custom double hopped stout, or whatever (or if you lack creativity, something that falls within BJCP guidelines are also welcome) you will then be randomly assigned to a table of 4 other entrants. you will each pour 5 tasters of your beer, and arrange the pours into 5 flights as to whatever consensus the 5 of you can agree to. you will then write (in 10 words or less) what your beer is. then you will get up and move to the table to your left. the 5 of you will choose two winners from the table you're sitting at,solely by general consensus of "favorite" , and those 2 will advance to the BOS round. those beers will be judged by a panel of learned homebrewers, and a tastiest beverage award will be given, with prize money. (note that overall impression is the ENTIRE SCORE, with all "to style" considerations ignored)

the out of the park website will be advertising a presale event soon, but please express any interest early, so as to help momentum...thank you.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Sounds like fun, but don't be so quick to dismiss BJCP sanctioned competitions. I will admit that it is frustrating when you have to wait for score sheets or you have a novice judge who has no idea what they are talking about. However, feedback from a trained and certified BJCP judge (my BJCP ID is G0871, by the way) is invaluable and can really make you into a better brewer. Slow feedback is the fault of the competition coordinator (this is why I like to enter local competitions since you can usually get your feedback and awards the same day of the competition) and lack of qualified judges is a result of homebrewers being too intimidated or lazy to put the time in to study for the exam. I have two advanced degrees and several technical certifications and I have to say that the BJCP exam is one of the most difficult things I have ever done. Another great thing about BJCP comps is that they allow you to compete against the same style of beer so you can see how you rate (apples to apples). In your format, a light lager will stand no chance against an IPA at the same table. Also, in your format, there is no feedback provided to the brewer other than, "Dude, I like your beer."

Don't get me wrong, your event sounds like fun and I will participate if I can. Just don't try to sell it as a replacement for a sanctioned BJCP competition.

[brahn]

Sounds like fun, but don't be so quick to dismiss BJCP sanctioned competitions. I will admit that it is frustrating when you have to wait for score sheets or you have a novice judge who has no idea what they are talking about. However, feedback from a trained and certified BJCP judge (my BJCP ID is G0871, by the way) is invaluable and can really make you into a better brewer. Slow feedback is the fault of the competition coordinator (this is why I like to enter local competitions since you can usually get your feedback and awards the same day of the competition) and lack of qualified judges is a result of homebrewers being too intimidated or lazy to put the time in to study for the exam. I have two advanced degrees and several technical certifications and I have to say that the BJCP exam is one of the most difficult things I have ever done. Another great thing about BJCP comps is that they allow you to compete against the same style of beer so you can see how you rate (apples to apples). In your format, a light lager will stand no chance against an IPA at the same table. Also, in your format, there is no feedback provided to the brewer other than, "Dude, I like your beer."

Don't get me wrong, your event sounds like fun and I will participate if I can. Just don't try to sell it as a replacement for a sanctioned BJCP competition.

+1

[hjw]

Poor scoresheets and judges is what pushed me to become a judge.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Poor scoresheets and judges is what pushed me to become a judge.

Me too, Hal. Also, I enter the competitions to get feedback so I can become a better brewer.

[nico soze]

well at this stage at least its just a forum for getting together and sharing some beer. i can talk all day on another thread about how the whole judging and certification and a number score goes against everything i believe about food and drink, and every other passion/art. i personally could couldn't give less of a damn about feedback. opinions are like assholes. everyone's stinks except mine. i refuse to allow a sanctioning body tell me anything, especially when they've never met me.

the way i'm running this, YOU are a judge. as an ACTIVE homebrewer, and entrant, you are more qualified to tell me about my beer than someone who passed a test. i'm trying to include the brewer in the process. and of course a lager doesn't stand a chance, unless of course there are alot of judges who think lagers taste better than ipas in general. but i don't really want lagers or ipas in my competition (they're welcome, but...) i want smoked triple IPAS and habanero lagers. you can't break down the magic of creative recipes and processes with any kind of objectivity. its not like you get anything really for winning. bragging rights in your local homebrew community, a little prize money(maybe, still working that out with dan) and an evening of food and drink with like minded individuals, and a chance be involved in the competition process.

i'll tell you like this. i've been involved in 2 competitions. one as a steward, and one as an entrant. i had 100000x as much fun being AT the competition than waiting for results.

[JonW]

i can talk all day on another thread about how the whole judging and certification and a number score goes against everything i believe about food and drink, and every other passion/art. i personally could couldn't give less of a damn about feedback. opinions are like assholes. everyone's stinks except mine. i refuse to allow a sanctioning body tell me anything, especially when they've never met me.

Nico, I hate to say this man, but what you're saying here basically is that this club and the way most people here like to approach beer competitions and feedback are against everything you believe about food and drink. I think you need to take a step back and see how your opinion fits with the goals of the club.

[nico soze]

i often get on rants and mis state my opinion. if i've offended, i apoligize. my stance is that homebrew is a very personal endeavor. i brew for myself and for friends. i try to make beer that we will enjoy. and i don't care what judges think about it, unless the judges are me, my friends, and the plethora of great men and women involved in this small subculture of socal homebrewing. i'm not telling anyone that their thought process is wrong, or that the conventional wisdom is without its merit. i'm saying lets get together and do some stuff for US.

personally, however, i do feel that objectively judging a subjective medium is flawed in its basic assumptions.

[ScottK]

and i don't care what judges think about it, unless the judges are me, my friends, and the plethora of great men and women involved in this small subculture of socal homebrewing. i'm not telling anyone that their thought process is wrong, or that the conventional wisdom is without its merit. i'm saying lets get together and do some stuff for US.

personally, however, i do feel that objectively judging a subjective medium is flawed in its basic assumptions.

Nico, BJCP judges are part of the plethora of people involved in homebrewing. Competitions provide a chance for constructive criticism from people who are trained in the standards that the homebrewing and craft beer community have agreed upon. It sounds to me like this is not something in which you are interested. And as a homebrewer, that is perfectly ok. It is entirely possible to have a lengthy and active homebrewing hobby without participating in competitions. However, if you are going to share your homebrew, critique is to be expected. Perhaps a "tasting" is more in order, rather than a "competition", with some prizes for the favorite beers of the tasting?

[BrewMasterBrad]

i do feel that objectively judging a subjective medium is flawed in its basic assumptions.

I respectfully have to call bullshit on this argument. Judging is, by its nature, subjective just as brewing, cooking, art, and perception of reality are. Judging is blind, so judges have no idea who the brewer is. But a judge's perception of the beer are completely subjective based on the individual's palette. Plus, you have multiple judges on a panel that can thoughtfully discuss your beer to see if they agree on the perception. You are much more likely to get objective (which is good), educated, and helpful feedback in this format than from a friend that will lie to your face and tell you that your double habanero chocolate stout is delicious when it is really a steaming pile of crap.

This club is a brewing club, not a drinking club. The main focus has always been helping members become better brewers. There is no art in drinking, but there is pleasure in drinking an artfully made beer (or whisky, whiskey, scotch, bourbon, vodka, rum, etc.).

I would also add that it is much more more difficult to brew an outstanding Pilsner than it is to brew a heavy-handed and over-the-top spiced/smoked anything. I have always been of the opinion that brewers should master the classics first before moving on to the more experimental and esoteric beers. It's kind of like trying to do a backflip on a bike when you don't even know how to ride without the training wheels yet.

[BARL Brewing]

This is one of those threads where its probably best to turn around and walk away......

Screw it!
Nico I would assume your opinion on bjcp and competition has become this from the one, I presume just one, time you entered. I don’t imagine you would have entered to begin if you felt this way. So besides saying don’t get soured on one time with poor feedback or feedback you didn’t like, I would say give it another shot. Judging should be as objective as possible, sure there is always going to be subjectiveness due to each judge processing their own perception of what their tasting and trying to translate that to paper, but in competition judging each style has its specific range, taste, and target.

On the other hand brewing is a hobby, and you should do with it what you want to make it fun. If you don’t like the idea of the competition process you’ve been involved in, then you should put together an event you would like to see happen.

[nico soze]

@ Scott. I agree with You on all points. Maybe it should be called a tasting. Same idea.

@ everyone. I love well thought out discourse. I hope everyone is enjoying it as well. No disrespect intended. And I'm not trying to say that technical judging doesn't have a well established role, what I'm saying is it isn't as much fun as it could be for brewers. So let's just have some fun instead and make it a more social thing.

[bwarbiany]

This seems like it'd be a cool and fun event, and depending on my schedule, I'll try to attend it. The first beer competition I ever attended was similar to this, held at a beer & wings joint, the crowd narrowed down the [six] entries to the top two, and a panel of more trained judges selected the winner between those two. It was a cool event, but it didn't really teach me anything about my beer. So I'll try to make it to this because it's going to be a fun event (and applaud you for taking the initiative to put something like this on), but to me it serves a very different purpose than a BJCP competition.

As others point out, BJCP competitions definitely serve a purpose for many homebrewers as well. Some [judges] are better than others, to be sure, but regular competition entries can help you learn to make better beer. IMHO it's possible to go *too far*, of course, as many of us brew beer the way *WE* want to brew rather than brewing to style. Many of my beers have a wrinkle or two that takes them out of the agreed-upon style guidelines, and for those I often don't enter competitions, or when I do, enter with the express purpose of getting feedback rather than caring about placing.

But BJCP competitions *CAN* give very valuable feedback. While "judging" beer can have some subjectivity, tasting and identifying off flavors is something that is a trained skill and something that many homebrewers haven't put in the time or effort to pick up. It's not as much about whether one beer is "better" than another, as trying to find out whether something is objectively wrong with a beer. Often a judge can pick up flavors that you [or, especially, your non-homebrewing friends who all profess to love your beer] might miss, and fixing those issues can make you a better brewer.

Often the type of feedback you get is feedback that your friends can't [due to inexperience] or won't [due to politeness] give you. I sounds like the OC Fair judges for your category weren't very good, and for that to be your first BJCP competition is a bit of a downer. Believe me, we all have our own horror stories about bad judges as well... But for every story I have like that, I've got 5-6 good constructive score sheets that helped me better analyze and understand my brewing process.

[BrewMasterBrad]

BW - good points. One of the drawbacks, and one of the most often voiced criticisms, of the BJCP compeitions is the rigidity of the style guidelines. Some homebrews do not fit nicely into a category, this is true. That is what category 22 is for, I suppose. Even if the beer does not fit into a category, you can still get feedback to help you become a better brewer.

[nico soze]

Brad w said my sentiments better than I could.