Doppelbock questions

[indianajns]

Hi guys,

Hoping for some guidance on a Doppelbock I plan on brewing Sunday. What are your thoughts on the following for the style:

Pitching temperature
Fermentation time and temperature.
Diacetyl rest time and temperature
Lagering time and temperature.

Recipe:
26 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 1
8 lbs Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 2
3 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 3
2 lbs Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 4
1.2 oz Hallertau Magnum [14.0%] - Boil 60 min Hops 5
0.8 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.0%] - Boil 30 min Hops 6

Mashing at 155. The OG is 1.088. I'm brewing 10 gallons and have north of 600 billion cells for each 5 gallon carboy of 833 German Bock Lager yeast.

Thank You!!!

[indianajns]

Here's what I'm planning. Please let me know if anyone thinks I am off here:

Cool Wort to 46 F then rack the chilled wort off of the cold break into another carboy(s).
Pitch yeast. Let fermentation free rise to 52. Hold at 52 until fermentation is complete at 1.025 (approx 2 weeks).
Raise to 62 for Diacetyl rest. Hold here for 3 days
Cool to 42 rack off settled trub into kegs. Hold at 42 for 2 weeks
Cool to 33. Lager for 7 weeks.
Force carb

Thoughts?

[JonW]

I've not done a Dopplebock, so I can't really give you input on that, but it sure looks to me like you've already done your homework and have a good plan in place!

[bwarbiany]

Only thing I'd say is that they generally suggest starting the d-rest when you're about 85% done with fermentation. So if you're going from 1.088 to 1.025, you should start raising the temp when you're at about 1.035.

Other than that, it looks perfect.

[indianajns]

Thanks for the tip. I will start D-rest at 1.035. How many days into fermentation do you suggest I start checking gravity?

[jward]

I have heard brewers argue that hot break is bad but cold break is good because it can provide yeast nutrients. I would think leaving the cold break behind, as you propose, is better especially if you add yeast nutrient.

[BrewMasterBrad]

I'm not sure what your system is like, but your plan looks pretty good. It is definitely going to be malty enough based on the recipe. I would actually mash a little bit lower to get a more fermentable wort. You will still have plenty of residual sugar left by the time the yeast craps out and you won't end up with a cloyingly sweet beer. I would also do at least a 90 minute boil to prevent DMS development from the Pilsner malt and to develop more flavor.

I use an immersion chiller, so I am able to chill the entire volume of my beer below 50F before it goes into the fermentor by recirculating ice water through the chiller. I then let the wort settle for about 20 minutes before I transfer it. This minimizes the amount of break material that goes into the fermentor. If you use a plate chiller, you won't be able to do this. I would be cautious of transferring the wort again before pitching just because every time you transfer, you are risking infection.

FWIW, I never do d-rests on my lagers. If you pitch enough healthy yeast, they will clean up after themselves. Just my opinion. Also, I don't have an easy way to measure gravity during fermentation, so I would never know when to start the d-rest anyway. I just do my best to provide the right conditions for the yeast to do their job and trust that those little buggers don't let me down. If you have a conical fermentor with a sample valve, then go for it.

I love Bocks and Dopplebocks. Can't wait to try yours, even though it sounds like it may be March before it is ready. I just discovered that I still have about 3 gallons of a Traditional Bock that I brewed last February sitting in one of my chest freezers. I think I may have to break that out for Christmas.

I brewed a beer that was right in between a Bock and a Dopplebock a few years ago that turned out really nice. In fact, I entered it in competitions as a Bock and a Dopplebock and it won in both categories. The recipe is below.

Recipe: GIDP 4-6-3
Brewer: Brad Nixon
Asst Brewer:
Style: Doppelbock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.70 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 13.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 66.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 1 37.5 %
10 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 31.3 %
8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 25.0 %
2 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.3 %
0.93 oz Magnum [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 25.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Hallertauer [3.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 4.8 IBUs
1.00 tsp Wyeast Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 7 -
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.0 pkg Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP8 Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 32 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 36.00 qt of water at 167.3 F 154.0 F 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 8.36 gal water at 168.0 F

[indianajns]

Thanks for the advice Brad!

I would actually mash a little bit lower to get a more fermentable wort.

Will take this advice and drop it a couple of degrees.

I would also do at least a 90 minute boil

Agreed, I have gotten in the habit of boiling almost all of my beers for 90.

I use an immersion chiller

I also have a monster immersion chiller that I love. I can get the wort down to the high 50's by running ice water through it and bringing it the rest of the way in the fermentation chamber.

I would be cautious of transferring the wort again before pitching just because every time you transfer, you are risking infection.

I will also take this advice

I never do d-rests on my lagers.

I have been listening to every doppelbock podcast I can get my hands on this past week. On one of Jamil Z's podcasts he says the exact same thing. As long as you have enough healthy yeast it'll clean everything up. No need for a D rest. He also never does them. So, I think I'll leave that step out too. I have 1.2 trillion yeast cells for 10 gallons built up from fairly fresh vials of the new White Labs Pure Pitch yeasts from Scott's shop so I think I'll be golden.