Hop Bursting

[BrewMasterBrad]

I have done quite a few pale ales and IPAs with late/whirlpool hop additions for aroma and flavor. I ferment in Sankey kegs, so dry hopping can be problematic. Late hopping has proven to be a viable alternative.

I just happened to purchase too many Amarillo hops over the last couple of years so I am contemplating doing a 10 gallon batch of pale ale with all the hops added to the whirlpool. Has anyone done this before?

[JonW]

I've not done a batch where it was whirlpool only, but I do a lot of whirlpool additions where I chill quick to 180, then add them (in large volume) and find great benefit in doing so. However, I always have bittering additions in there prior to that. I definitely notice a difference at flameout whirlpool vs 180 whirlpool.

In your situation, I would be inclined to do it right at flameout so you at least have some contact time in the whirlpool at a higher temperature to get some bittering from them. My thought would be 1/2 of the total charge right at flameout, chill to 170-180 over 10 mins, then add the other 1/2 and continue to whirlpool for another 15 minutes.

For 10G, I'd be at least 4-6 oz total - which might be more session-IPA'ish, but that's just me.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Thanks Jon. That is interesting since I was planning on using one hop variety (Amarillo). I don't care for Amarillo in the boil, but I love it as a late addition. I think I might try your method - some at flameout and some at 180. Should be fairly easy to control that with my immersion chiller.

[bwarbiany]

Thanks Jon. That is interesting since I was planning on using one hop variety (Amarillo). I don't care for Amarillo in the boil, but I love it as a late addition. I think I might try your method - some at flameout and some at 180. Should be fairly easy to control that with my immersion chiller.

Out of curiosity, what is your issue with Amarillo? I have issues with Amarillo--tastes like soap to me.

I actually went with Jess to Ten Mile Brewing up near Long Beach and ordered a beer, and mentioned it to her that it tasted like soap, and so I thought it was Amarillo... Asked the bartender--yep, Amarillo was a huge portion of the hop addition.

Just wondering if you get the same "soapy" taste that I do, and if it's a bittering addition problem moreso than a late addition problem.

[BrewMasterBrad]

Thanks Jon. That is interesting since I was planning on using one hop variety (Amarillo). I don't care for Amarillo in the boil, but I love it as a late addition. I think I might try your method - some at flameout and some at 180. Should be fairly easy to control that with my immersion chiller.

Out of curiosity, what is your issue with Amarillo? I have issues with Amarillo--tastes like soap to me.

I actually went with Jess to Ten Mile Brewing up near Long Beach and ordered a beer, and mentioned it to her that it tasted like soap, and so I thought it was Amarillo... Asked the bartender--yep, Amarillo was a huge portion of the hop addition.

Just wondering if you get the same "soapy" taste that I do, and if it's a bittering addition problem moreso than a late addition problem.

Not sure if soapy is the descriptor that I would use, but I definitely don't like it as a bittering hop. I love it as a whirlpool hop. Gives a great grapefruit character along with some Cascade-like notes.

By the way, why are you taking your new bride to pseudo-craft breweries? You should treat her better than that.

[bwarbiany]

By the way, why are you taking your new bride to pseudo-craft breweries? You should treat her better than that.

Pseudo? I guess there's a story there I don't know...

[gromitdj]

My guess is he may be mistaking 10 Mile for 10 Barrel?

*The latter being owned by AB-InBev

[bwarbiany]

My guess is he may be mistaking 10 Mile for 10 Barrel?

*The latter being owned by AB-InBev

Ahh, that would make more sense.

[BrewMasterBrad]

My guess is he may be mistaking 10 Mile for 10 Barrel?

*The latter being owned by AB-InBev

Ahh, that would make more sense.

yeah, my bad. Haven't even heard of 10 Mile, so I glossed right over it.

[khilt360]

I definitely notice a difference at flameout whirlpool vs 180 whirlpool.

That's interesting Jon. I've been looking into this flameout vs 180 thing as I will try anything to get more hop flavor. Michael Tonsmeire has talked about this on the BeerSmith podcast and didn't taste a difference in his beer. Also, they're have been two xBmt's on this topic and both exbeeriments didn't show a difference. One comparing flameout vs 170 and the other compared flameout vs 120. What difference have you noticed in you're beer?

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/01/the-ho ... t-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/31/the-ho ... t-results/

[lexuschris]

I'll admit that I don't know a lot on this subject, only read an article or two. However, it did make sense to me that certain hop oils are volatile at different temps... they evaporate with the hotter temperatures and time.

When I looked up the key oils, some boiled off at 197 or so, others at 190, it wasn't until about 180-F when they all seemed to stay in solution. So, I wait until I hit 180-F to whirlpool my hops. I shut off the cold hose water in my plate chiller for 20 minutes, and let the recirc in the chiller just naturally fall from 180-F to 160-F or so.. then bring back the hose water to drop the wort to pitching temps.

I've not really done a good side-by-side compare of 2 brews, one each way, to say that it makes a difference... but it makes sense to me. So I do it.

--LexusChris

p.s. For the same reason, I don't add honey or brown sugar until 130-F. You will keep a lot more aromatics from those when the temps are low like that.

[JonW]

Ditto what Chris said. Just because Brulosophy posts something about it, doesn't change my opinions, perceptions or procedures.

[Megastout]

Just a side note.
Was going to bottle an American Barleywine after 6 months of aging in secondary and found it didn't have enough hop balance, so in the bottling bucket, previously being purged with CO2, I dumped in 2 ounces of hops and let stand for 2 days, sort of late dry hopping.
Tasted like the hop aroma, flavor, and balance to meet the style, so then bottled. Since I am away, as you know, will see what impact it made on the final outcome.
I have recently been finding that dry hopping techniques have been rewarding, so will be more experimenting more in that realm.

[khilt360]

Makes sense Chris! I will try cooling to 180 to retain them hoppy oils. Thanks for that info.

[brahn]

I've made several whirlpool only beers. I think it works really well for adding hop aroma and flavor. I add the hops at flameout and whirlpool for anywhere from 20-45 minutes. For 10 gallon batches, I've used anywhere from 150g to 452g (~5oz to 16oz), but mostly use somewhere between 300-450g.

Mostly these have been session IPAs, so aiming for something less than 4.5% ABV, around 1.040 OG. For these beers I've gotten plenty of bitterness from the one addition. I started using just the whirlpool addition because other beers with a big whirlpool addition and a bittering addition came out too bitter.